*new* Suicide Rates Increase During Recession
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/05/health/us-suicide-rate-rose-during-recession-study-finds.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20121105
What is it? How should we define it?
Is it wrong? Why? Permissible? When, if ever?
Examples of clear-cut, wrong self-killing? Of unclear, gray areas? Of permissible, admirable, not-wrong self-killing?
Why do we tend to feel that suicide is immoral?
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/01/opinion/suicide-by-choice-not-so-fast.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20121101
ReplyDeleteI think suicide is really the escape from the fears you live with. I also think it is a very selfish action usually made without rational thought. Rational beings are self preserving. For a person to act against their own life is unnatural and that leads me to believe that suicide is a choice made outside of rational thought. Having personally experienced a friend committing suicide, I have seen the aftershocks of such and choice and it is far worse than any death event. The unanswered questions are overwhelming and the guilt is tangible. Suicide changes everyone involved, tragically the person committing it often doesn't make that realization. The only suicide that makes sense to me is the PAS when rational thought leads to that as the best option and the questions all get answered before the suicide happens.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Elizabeth 100% that suicide is selfish as well as being an unnatural decision. I have never experienced anyone close to me committing suicide, but from Elizabeth's testimony I believe it affects everyone around that individual. I can only imagine what goes through a persons mind when someone close to them takes their life. I'm sure the pain inside is more than anyone can imagine. The people around a suicide will always have thoughts in their mind what they could have done or they might have done to trigger such an action. I also believe it is an unnatural decision because who can really sit there and think about taking their life, and then actually do it. Take a second and picture yourself hanging or putting a gun to your head. For me it is extremely disturbing and there is no way I could go through with it. I know the question of "what about the grenade scenario?" is coming. Though it still might be an unnatural thought, the action would be done out of love for his men. This is a sacrifice, not a selfish act to kill themselves.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Beth that suicide is like an escape from fear, but I would also say it is an escape from pain as well. I think that suicide can be selfish, however, I don't think that the person committing suicide always means for it to be selfish. I think the person committing suicide is trying to make the best choice for them. The reason I say this is because my Great Uncle committed suicide when I was younger. I didn't really understand why he did it and I felt as if he were being selfish until my Grandma told me that he was in a lot of pain and he felt that was the best decision for him. He was tired of the agonizing pain and couldn't bear it any longer so he felt that suicide or an escape from the pain was the best choice. Since I have personally experienced a family member committing suicide, I know how hard it is to understand why they did it and all the questions that go on in your mind. Beth is right in saying that a suicide changes everyone that is involved because not only does it make you question the reason why they did it, but it also makes you question your life. In my case it made me realize at a very young age how important my life is and not to take it for granted.
ReplyDeleteAs far as suicide being immoral goes, I think it becomes immoral when you commit suicide for no reason (like if you aren't terminally ill or it isn't pain related). I also consider it immoral if you have someone else kill you. This excludes PAS because I think PAS is acceptable because it deals with terminally ill patients and relieving them from unbearable pain.
I think that I agree most with the suicide definition that Manuel Velasquez presented in our textbook. It basically said that suicide occurs when death is brought about by that person’s own acts or by their own permission. The act of suicide must be intentional and its purpose must be to die by those specific means that the person actually died.
ReplyDeleteGoing by that definition, I would say that suicide is not necessarily an immoral and selfish act. It definitely can be, but it is not always the case. Suicides can be really negative and like everyone else has been saying, change many lives. think a lot of other situations can be categorized as suicide, though. For example, self-sacrifice or self-killing due to a terminal illness is not a selfish act. But, both situations would be suicide by that definition.
For me, it is hard to classify what most of us have agreed upon as more moral and permissible acts as suicide. This is simply due to the fact that the majority of the time, suicide has such a negative connotation. I think it was Jeramie that mentioned in class that, on the news, no one ever mentions a self-sacrificial act as a suicide. They make it sound honorable and heroic, and of course it is both of those things. But I think some people would also classify it as suicide, especially if we are going by the definition that I mentioned.
P.S. I have not posted on the blog for so long because every time I tried, it kept deleting my comments. I just now realized that I was not signed in. -_____-
Emile Durkheim defined suicide as “all self administered acts, positive or negative, that result directly or indirectly in one’s death.”(Page 147 in the Barry text) Trusting this definition of suicide one can be sure that any time he or she voluntarily enters a situation where death is eminent, they will commit suicide. This means that anything from hanging oneself to refusing the last round of treatment for a terminal illness could be considered suicide. I agree with this definition, and it is pretty much the same as the one Megan mentioned above.
ReplyDeleteThe morality of suicide is not clear cut; it varies in every circumstance. Elizabeth and Jaramie mention that suicide is irrational and selfish; I believe that all suicides in the kind of situations they described are irrational and selfish. However, some situations can justify suicide, such as the example of the soldier jumping on the grenade to save his comrades. This is a very honorable decision that is both rational and unselfish. I think I have the same values as most people in this discussion, the difference lies in the way that we define suicide. All of us can agree that the man's decision to jump on the grenade to save his fellow soldiers is a very admirable decision. I choose to label this as suicide even though there is nothing wrong with the decision. I understand and respect other people's opinion that this does not constitute suicide, but as I said before, the difference lies completely in the definition of what constitutes suicide, not in the morality or rationality of the action. For me, suicide does not always have a bad connotation behind it. However, I do believe that most suicides are unjustified and irrational.
I had a very good conversation with a Marine the other day about this topic and the comments that were made about a soldier gallantly giving his life. He is a Sergeant and has spent 9 years in the Corps. When I asked about a Marine throwing his body on a grenade to save his men, his comment was short. "It's a selfless sacrifice and an honorable decision." This is coming from someone who has seen combat and been through war. I agree 100% with him with his thought. He also brought up a great point and it relates to civilians. If someone shot at you and another person jumped in front of you, would you say they committed suicide? I asked a couple of people and they replied with ,"that person saved my life ." Suicide is dying because you want to die, and if you did not want to die you would not do it. Someone jumping in front of a bullet or absorbing a grenade is dying because they want to save another persons life.
ReplyDeleteI believe that suicide is morally acceptable in specific circumstances. For example, terminally ill patients who have tried every possible method of treatment for their pain and suffering fit this criteria. I agree that most people who take their own life because they just need an out are not mentally stable. The issues they are faced with most cause them to feel like suicide is their only option, when really they need help. When a person does not go into a situation with the intention to die (such as what Jeramie said about a person who jumps in front of a bullet for another person) than they should most likely not be considered suicidal. Could this be considered a suicide (an act by the person that results in his or her death) without the person not being suicidal? Like we discussed in class, we feel that suicide is immoral because of the negative conotation associated with the word. In this case however, suicide would probably not be considered suicide but viewed as saving someone's life.
ReplyDeleteI think that the problem with defining suicide is that so many people are quick to assign negative connotations. The act of suicide is merely that: an act. It is not evil in itself, but rather it is the intention or circumstances behind it that can make it so. There can be times when it is good, and I believe that we tend to label these instances as a person's self-sacrifice, avoiding the negativity evoked by labeling something a suicide. In the end, I believe that we should not judge the action itself, but look at the details behind the action before we sentence the defendant.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Andy here, regarding the negative connotations of suicide. I know, at least for me, for whatever reason whenever I think of defining suicide I picture some punk little teenager just looking for attention and not thinking rationally whatsoever. That is exactly why I get agitated, because I think if you are 100% set on killing yourself it seriously isn't that difficult, so just go do it. That is why I probably come across as "I'm calling your bluff, just suck it up and go kill yourself" and I do not mean to be rude or disrespectful in any fashion, because although this is what I think of when "suicide" is mentioned, I actually think it is a topic that has a multitude of implications. It is very hard to define and given the circumstances I do not always think it selfish (i.e. jumping on a grenade to save others is heroic) and that is where it starts to take on several meanings. I do not think there is one specific instance where we can say "hey, suicide is this or that" instead there a lot of issues to think about and take into account when we try to think of the act of suicide from that individual's perspective.
DeleteSuicide is the act of killing oneself. However, due to the connotation, suicide is also so much more. The connotation adds a stigma to suicide that is widely felt in today's culture. I would also consider self sacrifice for the sake of others suicide, but I try not to think of suicide with the negative connotations.
ReplyDeleteI don't think suicide is either moral or immoral. It all depends upon the circumstances. It also depends upon the culture. Seppuku was considered honorable by the Japanese, but nowadays it would be considered immoral. One reason I don't view most suicides as immoral is because most people who commit suicide aren't rational at the time. Morality and immorality are hard to connect with suicide.
I agree with Charles. Even though today it would be considered immoral to commit Seppuku, it was not in olden days. Regardless of the time period, it was considered a very honorable way to die. There was a point where seppuku was also a form of capital punishment which, on another note, was not widely accepted by the Japanese. I view suicide in a similar manner, if it comes in the form of say "family honor" or a way to "honor" your country then I have no qualms with it. Otherwise I find it to be unacceptable.
ReplyDeletefrom SHAD
ReplyDeleteSuicide
Wednesday, October 31, 2012
Suicide is the selfish act of ending ones life. We should define it by the intentions of the person attempting to take their own life. In my opinion every aspect of suicide is wrong, it is not fair to the people left behind. The only time it is permissible is assisted suicide, which I this is better defined as euthanasia. It is wrong when a teen commits suicide over a girl or boy not like them; it just selfishness. When it comes to a military member killing them self to save fellow troops I would define it as sacrifice rather than suicide. I think we see suicide as immoral simply because it is wrong in nature.
Velasquez’s definition of Suicide (traditional legal definition)- (1) death is brought about by that person’s own acts or omission and (2) those acts or omissions are (a) intentionally carried out (b) for the purpose of bringing about death by those concretely particular means that actually brought death about. I tend to agree with this definition the most because it covers the most parts and is the legal definition.
ReplyDeleteAs nearly everyone else is saying, suicide has a stigma in society (at least in the United States). Technically, again as nearly everyone else is saying, suicide is simply the act of taking ones own life. I think that this is exactly how we should be defining it. Many times, suicide can also be called sacrifice. I don't think it is always permissable due to the fact that, to put it in blunt terms, I see it (with a lack for better words) an easy out. I can understand why people are suicidal or have actually commited suicide but I would by no means condone it, Instinces in which I could condone would be the honorable or sacrificial suicides (by my own definitions) such as taking your own life so that other people could live.
ReplyDeletePeople tend to see suicide, in the Western world, as immoral because of what we have been conditioned to think. I believe that we could have a polar opposite opinion of this had we lived somewhere else like Japan, for example. In Japan it is considered honorable to commit suicide.