*new* Story about close collaboration and how that can lead situations to go "sideways"
http://chronicle.com/article/Affairs-of-HeartMind/136085/?cid=at&utm_source=at&utm_medium=en
So, what do you make of the Petraeus scandal? An isolated case? (see second & third stories below). A reminder that even the best people can make mistakes? Are these stories indicative of human moral frailty, modern corruption, particular people's stories, unfortunate series of events, or ??? Can someone fail in one area of life (personal relationships) yet be successful in another (work, career)? Does having an affair mean that the offending party doesn't love the spouse? What does it mean to have an affair? (I know! too many questions . . . just answer the ones that strike you).
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/14/us/top-us-commander-in-afghanistan-is-linked-to-petraeus-scandal.html?nl=todaysheadlines&adxnnl=1&emc=edit_th_20121113&adxnnlx=1352836831-ddYAalkJWWJguYcY+wNbww
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/13/us/petraeuss-resignation-highlights-concern-over-military-officers-ethics.html?ref=us
http://www.salon.com/2012/11/13/petraeus_the_ongoing_saga/?source=newsletter
I'll say:
It makes me sad for the spouses who have been caught up in the scandal. It is *so* public. I think people try hard and often fail. I don't think it necessarily means that the parties involved in both scandals don't love their spouses, or are necessarily bad people, but holy cow would it be hard to deal with those betrayals on a national stage. Good luck to all of them!
Wow. This one has so many different aspects flowing into it it is hard to know where to start. This man has done great things for our country and it is so sad to see him toppled by human weakness. It really magnifies the fact that we truly are only human and limited by our humanness. As someone who has witnessed affairs among friends, I truly believe that the spouses do lstill love each other in most cases but aren't satisfied with some part of their relationship. I think our society wants it all now, expects it all now and goes after it without concern for consequences. In that respect, I believe it comes down to moral failings. Unfortunately this is far from an isolated event in my mind. The less moral this world becomes, the more rampant these stories will be. It is a sad state of affairs (no pun intended).
ReplyDeleteI disagree that affairs are derived from moral failings, or at least entirely. I only disagree because morality is such a subjective thing though. I somewhat believe that humans have a polygamous basis, but morality prevents us from doing so (although not all). If you look at the animal kingdom, the goal of the male is to impregnant as many females as possible to propagate the species; few species mate for life. This animalistic need might explain our social nature: it makes us available to many mating opportunities, as well as to keep us stimulated. But if there is so much to gain from living in groups, why doesn't this apply to marriage? I believe that moral law is what keeps us from following this instinct on a day to day basis; but in certain circumstances, when the benefit of a extramarital relationship is greater than the marriage, affairs occur. Morality may guilt us from entering affairs or into ending affairs, but it doesn't really quell the temptation of the affair itself.
DeleteI agree I think that perfection is too hard for one person to live up to. If a person excels in one area of their life like work then chances are that they have let some other aspect slip. He probably let a part of his marriage slip when he became so focused on work. It is so human to be imperfect. I think that this is a tragic example of communication failure.
DeleteI don't know much about the Petraeus scandal, but I do know a little bit about affairs. I don't think affairs occur because the spouses hate eachother...humans are frail, its true, and as such we tempt easily. I believe affairs occur because we want something more than what we have. You may not have the best love life, or may not be happy with your spouse. You may still love them, but like a kid in a candy store, you want this and that, even though you know should only have one. Of course, there are people out there who may just be greedy: there is no love in any of the relationships formed, just an attempt to get self-satisfaction through other people.
ReplyDeleteThe common definition of affair is a turning away from a spouse to another person, usually for sexual favors. This is the definition that I am using above, and the one I am sure is being referred to in the articles. But an affair can be a strong emotional attachment to another person as well. Can we really say these sexual affairs lack emotional attachment as well? Though affairs may be based in romance, if a man no longer gets emotional support from his wife, or vice versa, is it really wrong for him to seek it in another place?
I would love to agree with much of what Katie is saying. Although it is hard to accept these statements because of our morals, there is a lot to be said here about affairs. I personally have never been a part of an affair, but I do know what it is like to love someone. Love is a strange thing and it attaches you to a person or thing in a way you could never dream possible. This "love" has many different aspects to it. Just like a marriage has many different aspects to it. I still love parts of that person, but have fallen out of love with other parts. I think this is very true for some people that choose to take part in affairs. I don't believe that it is because they hate the person or even that they don't love their spouse anymore. They simply may have fallen out of love with certain parts of that person and then fallen in love with those aspects of another person. Although I am stating this, I am not holding it true for all cases. Every person is unique and all situations are different in certain ways. I believe that it is perfectly human and possible to love more than one person. However based on societal norms and my morals I understand that this does not meant that I should be with more than one person.
DeleteThese men that have made mistakes are not necessarily terrible people. It is simply a tragedy that they have slipped into. Like Katie said, in the animal kingdom this is normal, but in our world it is not. I do not think everyone is perfect and like I stated, love has some strange affects on people. I can't speak for these men personally because I don't know their personal feelings, but I do believe that these affairs may have been driven by emotions and weren't intended to hurt anyone.
I agree with katie. Yes these commanders served our country and put their life on the line for us. Thats just it!..They put their life on the line for others and its hard to have another life or to be able to hold on to a past lifestyle in doing so. I feel that this is why we have affairs because nobody is perfect and so we take "perfect" pieces of people and cope with them. Some affairs can involve emotions after awhile or some affairs can be just for the time being. Either way, its still a bad thing to establish especially nationally and at such a high rank. If we all could create our perfect wife or husband there would 0 affairs but since that is impossible to happen there is always going to be something better or different out there to "try".
ReplyDeleteI believe that love is not contingent on action. A person could have some very bad or evil actions yet still be loved despite their actions. Real love is not broken so easily by a mistake of human frailty.
ReplyDeleteThis almost makes me feel bad for the people involved in the scandal. I agree with Katie that affairs occur because we want something more than what we have. (Just like the saying, "You always want what you can't have"). With that being said, I don't think it means that the spouses don't love each other. I believe they probably still do love each other I just think that there is probably something lacking in their relationship because one or the other is caught up in something else like work for example.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I don't think that being caught up with work is an excuse to have an affair, but we are human and humans do make mistakes. We are not perfect as Beth stated above.
I believe that these affair incidences occur because of the high level of stress that is placed on the commanding officers. The high levels of stress involve being separated from their families for prolonged periods of time and the stress from putting their lives on the line in active combat. It is human nature as well as any animal to crave and have sex. I do not condemn them for what they did but do not agree with it either. I do agree that when affairs occur that the spouses still love each other but the affair occurs due to that lack of satisfaction in their marriage.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with earlier comments about how these affairs among the high officers show human frailty. Making a commitment can be challenging when our bodily needs are not satisfied and overwhelms us to make the dishonest decisions such as an affair.
As Katie said, in the animal kingdom sexual fitness is a major component to the survival of the species. But in human society no such things is necessary due to our large number and our stable way of living by which I mean that unless you are in some military branch or a member of law enforcement your chances of dying suddenly and violently are very slim. Furthermore, humans cannot be likened to animal society because of the complexity of our feelings, our emotions run deep and high, a general characteristic of human nature; while animal emotions are nothing more than instinct. For instance, we never forget those we love while a dog can forget the pups she has born after a few months of separation. My point is I don’t believe that we should refer to animal behavior for justification for affairs.
ReplyDeleteBecause human emotions are powerful things I think that if an individual truly loves someone they will not engage in an affair. However, I believe that an individual who does engage in an affair can still love his or her spouse but the love they feel for that person is not as deep as they thought when they entered into a marriage. Instead of referring to animal behavior or human imperfection for justification of affairs I would like to take into consideration the culture of our society. I think that the prevalence of affairs in our society today is partially due to social conditioning. Nearly, every day we read about how some actor or actress was unfaithful and is having an affair with someone else, or we go see a chick flick where everyone is having an affair with everyone else, or we simply listen to a friend’s romantic problems. My point is news about affairs is everywhere and affairs have thus come to be kind of standard norm in our society today.
Though affairs might be considered a norm, whenever an affair is discovered aren't the people involved often ostracized? I would think this would discourage involvement in an affair.
DeleteI've been involved in an affair, rather I cheated on an ex. You're right; I knew at the beginning of the relationship that our love wasn't that deep and probably would never be. I cheated because I wasn't happy with my relationship, and I was too afraid to make the leap to break up with the poor guy. It ended up okay--I wasn't ostracized because our relationship was very private anyway, my ex expected we'd break up soon, etc. But it didn't make me feel any better, I was extremely guilty. I think this reflects the social and moral standards of our society. So while the incidence of cheating/affairs in our society is high, the acceptance of it is not.
I believe that this sort of thing is much more common than we realize. I do not believe that all scandals are truly uncovered to the degree that this one has been. This is definitely not a minor mistake, and he obviously knew what he was doing when he had the affair. The woman is just as much to blame as he is. They are both at fault, and the wife should be the one "devastated" not the woman he had the affair with. There is usually corruption in the government and high positions in the country as we have seen in the past. It is a very serious problem that this may never have come out had it not been for the FBI looking into emails for other intentions. He had wanted to possibly hold a political office and now his life is ruined because of this one misjudgment. He was definitely successful as a leader both in the military and CIA but had critical downfalls in his personal life. I believe that it is possible for a person to succeed in some areas but fail in others. However, failing does not have to be as extreme as in this case. Being a husband who spends too much time at work to provide a good life for his family is different from a husband who has an affair. I would bet that he does love his wife still. It is difficult to say whether having an affair means that the one who had it does not love the spouse. I think in most cases it is just poor judgment and if offered the choice they would take back the decision they made. I would think that most would say that they regret their decision as well. I believe that there is always a reason why the person has an affair (even if the reason is kept a secret to themselves). Having an affair pretty much always hurts the other party in some way. I believe that it does show some human frailty because most of the time like I said the love is still there completely for the other person. This mistake, especially to a person of high power, can cost them much more than what it was worth. They should take that into consideration before they put themselves in the situation.
ReplyDeleteI believe it can be possible to have a successful professional job while conducting the rest of your life in foolish ways. This being said, when a person is not trustworthy to their own spouse it really says something about their character. There is a good chance the person is making similar errors in other parts of their life. Someone above said that morality can be subjective. I agree with this but an affair is very difficult to justify under any logical moral system. When a person marries someone they make a commitment to that person. How could it be morally acceptable to break such a promise at all? Especially without telling the spouse you are not going to honor that commitment any more. When one enters marriage he or she makes a commitment to the spouse regardless of future feelings. That is why it is stated through good times and bad, sickness and health. I think people sometimes let their feelings affect their decisions in negative ways.
ReplyDeleteHumans all have morals and moral frailty is growing more and more common in today's world. Why? We cannot blame it all on the newer and younger generations but the blame must spread to all. Why? Because we learn from the generations before us. No one is perfect nor will anyone ever be perfect we all have our vices but we must learn from them. If we continue to keep making the same mistakes as generations before us and ignore the consequences this portrays to the younger generations that it is okay to be ignorant. How can we fix the problem? By having some humility and quit being so hypocritical not only as people but as a society. The media does nothing but focus on moral frailty, corruption, and scandal.
ReplyDelete